Hey blokes,

As you could probably tell from my nickname im more of a Gemini-man, having owned 4 of the little bastards [one is currently a big ground-up-Rodeo2.6-turbo-efi-powered conversion in the works] along with an E36 318i 5speed and a Piazza Turbo. Always had respect for Datsuns being relatively small, oldschool and RWD, and now im unfortunately being forced to work on them [as if two of my own projects werent enough].

Off to the question. My little cousin wanted a project car and wanted me to help him find one, which was pretty funny as id just seen a Datsun 1200 Sedan for sale and it looked pretty neat. Checked it out, was neater then expected so were off to throw a deposit on it tomorow. Its an original 73 model 1200 4door Sedan auto, A12, 4 wheel drums etc etc - your usual standard base model 1200 sh*t. The car is pretty immaculate and rust free for its age. Being a project were pretty much throwing the driveline in the bin, which leads me to my actual question [geez it took long enough to get there didnt it?]

The first port of call would be the brakes. I have searched www.datsun1200.com and have some pretty vauge results atm. Basically im after a cheap front wheel disc conversion along with some sort of master cylinder and booster swap. The standard brakes are unboosted, so from what ive so far dug up a B210 [120Y] booster and tandem M/C should bolt in. Yes/No? Anything more to it then that? Up front I was planning on using Stanza discs and struts - however my search could find NOTHING in the way of what was involved in fitting them. I did however find a Stanza strut fitted with VLT Discs and calipers [funnily enough we have access to these off a mate...] - anyone got any idea how much harder these would be to adapt to the Stanza strut?

An engine conversion is also on the cards and so far im inclined to push him into doing the CA18DET conversion, as the MadDat Motorsport conversion is relatively well priced. Are there any other suggestions [13B 6port and SR20DE/DET fall to mind], along with places where i could locate a conversion kit for it?

Sorry if some of these questions seem stupid, like i said ive done abit of searching with no real concrete advice as yet.

Nick-

_________________
Project - G200z EFI Turbo 76 Gemini coupe, GT3076R 525hp roller bearing turbo. 6years and counting...

Daily - G161z EFI Turbo Gemini Sedan, T3/T4, Deltagate, standard engine, 160rwkw

For the engine conversion you would be able to do the ca18det farely easy but the engine would be more on the pricey side. The 13b rotary is an option but can be really expensive (like in the high thousands) and you would have to do a lot of customizing. The easiest and maybe best way to go might be to put in an A15 engine. They're light so you'll still have good handeling and will fit in quite easily. You wouldn't have to buy a kit you might just have to make a bracket or two. This would be the easiest conversion to do. If you want more power you can up the horses of an A15 fairly easily. You can port it, polish it, put on the side draft dual carbs, put in a hot racing cam, bolt on a turbo, and alot more.

So go for either an A15 or a ca18det

Square headlight Stanza Struts (later model)
120Y booster / MC
use the 1200 strut tops so you don't have to mod the tower.
lowered 1200/120Y/stanza king springs.
stanza tie rod ends

i think thats it, i'm trying to remember, if you go back to 1200.com and go to the user 1200rallycar's profile his website has a write-up on it fro memory.

and i say go for the A15 with twins, SR or CA, the rotor will be hard to register and will cost a lot more in the end.

_________________
120Y Coupe- longest build ever!

MINIMUM cost for a ca18det conversion is around $5000 doing everything yourself.

you'll probably have rego problems if you go for a sr20det/big rotor in a 1200.

I just asked what motor to put into 1200 sedan on datnet.org.... thread is here:
http://datnet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6021

_________________
White '74 1200 ute with a L20b, extractors weber and 5 speed.

Thanks for the replies blokes.

Basically another A series is out of the question. The car is being built with the sole purpose of being a quick street/strip car thus the the preference to forced induction. A 13B Turbo is his preferred option however these arent legally engineerable in Victoria [Cant engineer one in a Gemini, and thats a fair bit heavier at 950kg] so thats off the list. I was leaning towards a CA18DET on the basis that the fitting kit from Mad Dat would work out to around the 650 mark, postage etc paid and on your doorstep in Victoria. I am capable of doing everything bar the major engine mount fabrications - which is why im sourcing fitting kits. Is there any other company that does them for the 1200? Plenty of 1600 stuff, not much 1200 stuff [1200 was B110 right?]

Not sure why you think the CA18 is an expensive option. Ive already found two complete engine/gearbox packages for under 1000 - One turbo, one naturally aspirated. At that price there is obviously some work required, however rebuild kits arent exactly expensive and seeing as boost levels arent going to be incredibly stupid the standard pistons should be ok. If the CA18 makes its way under there itll be a pretty much stock-freshen up rebuild with bigger injectors, an aftermarket ECU and a T25G. On 14psi i estimate power to be around the 140rwkw mark.

Team Dat - Thanks alot, much appreciated. Whats the actual model number on the square headlighted Stanza - eg VB commodore, VC commodore - you get my drift.

From what i understand ill have to fit the 1200 strut tops onto the Stanza strut/disc/caliper assembly correct, with lowered springs [heard the stanza ones sit too high, spring rates perhaps?]? Are the Stanza tie rods a necessity? I think i read something about using adjustable Torana LC items, know anything about that?

First on the list is the booster and master cylinder - i think while im at it ill use the 120Y swaybar as well.

Thanks for the help boys.

Nick-

_________________
Project - G200z EFI Turbo 76 Gemini coupe, GT3076R 525hp roller bearing turbo. 6years and counting...

Daily - G161z EFI Turbo Gemini Sedan, T3/T4, Deltagate, standard engine, 160rwkw

Few more things i forgot to ask. With the Stanza strut conversion, how much is the offset changed? I heard somewhere it was 3" total [!!!!!]. Thats a massive increase which would mean different wheels. Which wheel/tyre combos are people using with these struts? Id prefer a steel rim with some form of Datsun steel hubcap - keep the old school sleeper thing happening.

One thing ive also found out is with the CA18 conversion mods to thetrans tunnel are required to clear the 5speed. Anyone know what exactly needs to be modified/massaged, or is it just a case of cutting a hole to suit the shifter? The car is running the standard 3speed Auto if that helps [Escorts running Autos have bigger trans tunnels, not sure if this means anything to a B110].

For those interested, heres the car.



Nick-

_________________
Project - G200z EFI Turbo 76 Gemini coupe, GT3076R 525hp roller bearing turbo. 6years and counting...

Daily - G161z EFI Turbo Gemini Sedan, T3/T4, Deltagate, standard engine, 160rwkw

Dont give up on the A15 yet! Slap a turbo or a small supercharger (maybe toyota one) on the side with decent internal/induction work and you will have one little fun motor. And remember, the 1 - 2 grand spent on buying a stock CA could be spent on the A15 and that would be a VERY well built and top lil donk!! Easier on the rego papers aswell im thinking.

[quote]The car is running the standard 3speed Auto[/quote]

This is good in the favour of fitting the CA18DET as the auto tunnel is larger, thus less cutting and fabrication. The new mounts are easily done i hear, just a case of grinding/oxying off the old A12 g/b mounts and fitting new ones. I havent done the conversion but im pretty sure that if you have an auto tunnel , no major mods are required.

You could also use Sunny struts for the front, its just a simple change over of using the whole front end of a sunny and it should bolt directly up. For the increase in power i'd opt for some better stopping power maybe some ventilated disks up front, the skyline swap is popular also. You could just roll on the 13 steelies if you used the stanza/sunny strut convo, keep the sleeper look

Looks like you snapped yourself up a top looking car there, very nice and clean!

Like your enthusiasim

Hate the car you have chosen to do your nasty's too

That would be a great example to restore to A1 Granny Spec

What a waste.

But hea, she is yours.

Enjoy

_________________
1970 P510 SSS sedan
1971 P510 wagon + spare shell
197? 180B SSS Coupe
1981 910 SSS with Z18et, Leather interior

1200 auto tunnels are bigger, may still require some "massaging" to get the 5 speed ca box to fit.

I can only speak from upgrading to sunny struts. Track was increased by about 1 1/2" (guessing). The offset wasnt changed by much at all. Its the Sunny lower control arms which are longer, giving the 1200 more camber.

120y swaybar is a good upgrade for the 1200.

It sounds like your after striaght line speed rather than decent handling. If not i would say that you would want to be keeping the 1200's best asset, its weight.

Anyway good luck, research is the key. And work out what u want from the car 1st.

Oh and BTW buying an engine to transplant isnt the costly bit. Allow $3k or $4k to get it in (using new bits). Fuel upgrades, exhaust, piping, vacuum all add up. Thats without taking into consideration suspension and handling. A ca18det with 120y brakes aint gunna work (well maybe will work once).

_________________

Go for the A15 with dual side carbs a hot cam and a turbo you could get up to 200 horse witch would be a crap load for that small car. I have an A15 in my 1970 datsun 1000 it has like 150 horse and it wheighs 1400 Lbs. It fuckin rips havent seen a car thats faster than it yet.

I thought the tunnel would be abit bigger as most auto tunnels in old school cars seem to be abit larger [Escort, early Corollas]. Nothing a grinder and some sledgie work cant fix i suppose.

Like i said, A series it to be avoided at all cost Havent had the best experience with these, I had someone try to tell me an A15 would run rings around a Gemini. Shame they were osowrong. Bigger suprise was the fact that the L20B and L24B put up an ever worse fight but i wont go into that

In all seriousness, the main reason for avoiding the EFi Turbo conversion on an A series is fabrication. Id have to fabricate manifolds and not being the worlds best welder id like to stay away from that task for the time being. With the conversion, if i can source the fitting kits im already half way there, as i am competent enough to do the smaller fab tasks.

The Stanza Struts/brakes are only for a temporary measure while i find out more info in a big brake conversion. My cousin has never driven a car with 4 wheel drums/no booster before [shouldve seen the lookin on his face LOL] so i want to carry out a fairly cheap/inexpensive conversion for him until he is ready to do the whole respray-engine conversion thing. For the time being the car will be rego'd, cleaned up and driven in granny spec condition so you can relax SSS_510

In regards to big brakes, i have heard something about using R31 vented discs and calipers on i *think* stanza struts. Anyone got anything on that, or how much modification work is involved? Im guessing it would need a substantially larger master cyl, in the vicinity of a 1" bore. ive also seen photos of a VLT disc and Caliper setup on a Stanza strut - if anyone knows ANYTHING at all about that setup itd be much appreciated, because a mate has similar discs and calipers sitting in his garage that hell donate [VP 5L, 280mm disc and calipers]

As for the handling bit - its not my car, not really my say. Im abit of a handling man myself [my Geminis receiving BIG work including a watts link rear] although ive talked him into doing some suspension work in the future [new bushes, lowered springs, modified leafs etc] but nothing too major - just enough to get it to handle well enough. I might get crucified here but although a 1200 has size and weight to its advantage [RWD Mini], its track and wheelbase are way too narrow making it twitchy and fairly unpredictable [obviously the strut conversion would help with the track bit]. If he wanted handling i wouldve made him hunt down a 1600.

This is just a rough guide [counting costs in my head], please mention anything ive forgotten. Like i said, rough guide so im only counting the engine side of the deal.

CA18DET engine and 5speed $1000-1500
ECU installed and tuned from Bresciani Racing - $1500 [Microtech]
Mad Dat Crossmember - $600
Intercooler - $300-600
Intercooler piping - $300
Exhaust - $800
T25G - $250-400
Surge tank - $90
Bosch VLT-style pump - $150
Misc items [air filter, lines etc] - $500

Thats coming in under 7000, like i said rough guide would probably work out cheaper depending on where I get things for him. Sound about right?

Thanks for the help.

Nick-

_________________
Project - G200z EFI Turbo 76 Gemini coupe, GT3076R 525hp roller bearing turbo. 6years and counting...

Daily - G161z EFI Turbo Gemini Sedan, T3/T4, Deltagate, standard engine, 160rwkw

Yep I reakon your pretty good on your calcs there.

increasing track is fairly easy... you will need a bigger diff - Possibly a H190 or hilux (heavy!!) and maybe some flaired guards.

I've got a h190 out of a vanette to go in mine, it increases track by about 90mm overall.

There are plenty of very competitive circuit 1200's.

_________________

oh and BTW you would want to add a diff to your costs, stock 1200 wont hold up to much.

Also a shortened tailshaft.

Unfortunatly it all adds up, but chances are it will be over time so you wont notice it going down the pit!

_________________

If you have the money then go for the ca18det that would pretty cool