Has anyone had any experience or know much about running E85 in NA engines?
There is plenty of info around about E85 in turbo engines, everyone's heard it's hugely knock resistant, allows you to put in heaps of timing etc etc so you make big power with little effort from turbo motors with more or less just a revision of the fuel system to allow it to supply the roughly 30% more fuel that's needed and a tune.
So it sounds awesome there.
Now I've seen Holden have released a flex fuel SS and apparently they are in partnership with caltex to bring the fuel out in more locations, i've heard that it will be priced so as to be competetive with petrol despite having to use more of it.
So made me think, what would an L series be like on E85?
Assuming you built the motor to suit, will you get alot of benefits from really high comp ratios and advanced timing on an NA motor? Will it make up for or far exceed the losses you'd experience from the E85 having less units of energy per unit of fuel?

EDIT: If it's all that it might be interesting to build an L20B for my 200B based around E85. A87 head on an L20B bottom end with L28 flat tops would have about 11:1 compression (i think), might that work well on E85 without costing the world?

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Apparently E85 is not as good in NA applications as it is in turbo. Race l28's are down about 10hp going from race unleaded to E85. This is coming from les collins dyno testing.

11:1 would be too low.
Shoot for 12:1+

When i was researching it for my race l20b i was told to aim for 13.5:1+ with powerplus E85. Pump e85 is not as good and would require a lower C/R
Race engines need to change the oil after every event, due to dilution

Race fuel is very expensive.
E85 is semi cheap, although the price has risen significantly in the last year

I recon go for it.
But pick a combo with lots of compression and prepare to replace a lot of rubber/gaskets if required

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Circuit Race 1600 in the build

from what I've heard from the rally crowd the problem to consider is that you cannot leave it in the car for month or so as it eats out or clogs things like injectors and fuel pumps
it also turns to a jelly in the fuel tank as it absorbs moisture out of the air.
the rally people that use it empty the tank after each rally and run normal fuel through the system to flush out the e85
the view it that a turbo car loves it as it sucks out the heat from the engine so you can run higher boost with no chance of blowing it up
I know of no NA rally cars running it but the front running turbo guys think its the way to go
the other thing it that you can only buy it at a few outlets
a car with a carby would be hard to tune ( in my view) as you need to pump more e85 into it, which then leads to the question of what do you do when you run out of e85?
A efi engine with a after market ecu ( Vi-pec) can run two fuel maps and can install a ethanol sensor in the fuel line to switch between fuel maps as required which makes it easier

i think I'm the worlds greatest E85 advocate. The stuff from caltex works just fine.

Main advantages are the knock resistance and the cooling effect on the intake charge. So go for heaps of comp and tonnes of timing.

It does absorb moisture from the air but if you have a sealed fuel system, or a regularly driven car, not a problem.

It also eats old rubber fuel lines, so $10 worth of new lines might be needed.

It's also enviro friendly!

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'...to 180B or not to 180B, that is the question...'

The Datto...
'74 610 180B
SR20DET on 18psi and E85. 220kW.

It'd be interesting to try out then. Perhaps it'll be widely spread enough (at the servo) that i could build my next L20B around it hrmmm .

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I've done a bit a tuning on turbo falcons with e85, rule of thumb is you need 30% more fuel when running e85. You will be able to run more ignition advance with e85 and in theory make more power without the engine detonating. If using carby you will have to get it rejetted.
Just my 2 cents from my experience with e85. gains on an N/A engine sent nearly as good as turbo cars hence it's not worth the cost changing injectors / carby for the extra 30% extra fuel needed.

Yeah, well that i already knew, the gains on an NA car would come from being able to run massive compression and throw in heaps of timing so you'd have to make an engine to suit rather than just rejetting an existing one.
But when it's possible i'll be building an engine anyways in the future the idea came up .

Even on a turbo car the idea of converting to E85 will always hinge around it being 30% cheaper than 98 ron as well, i daily all my cars so i'd never go to E85 if it was going to cost significantly more to run even if i DID make uber power.
Sadly .

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Brining up this old topic again, cause I'm putting a 11:5 comp L20b motor in my daily driver and don't think 98unleaded will run without detonation!
The motor has plenty of Quench which helps prevent detonation, but I'm considering the E85 option due to the servo around the corner.
Any one actually tried this in a daily high comp NA motor?
I'm running twin dellorto carbs!
Cheers

I never ended up doing anything with E85 sadly....in fact my Datsun isn't even on the road now. But i'll be interested to see if anyone else ended up doing anything in the meantime too.

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I re tuned a V6 saloon car two weeks ago for E85. I had to add 4 degrees of advance to the timing to reach MBT.
It still fell just short of the power it made on 98 pump fuel. I don't think the comp ratio was very high on that one.

I've just done a simple EFI conversion on an A12 engine. I'm happy to retune it on E85 and post results too. It will be less than a week.
When the turbo goes on it will be E85 anyway.

The NA guys I race against in IP run comp ratios of 14:1+ using E85.

It's bloody good stuff for turbo cars. I have made several dyno runs at 36 PSI on a standard cast A12 bottom end without hurting it.

Chris Hellessy's 180bsss is running e85 im pretty sure

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tradesafe: Dazda, 2ndTimeStanza, Qeleh, big mac, hatchman


1979 Datsun Sunny Wagon 13b Turbo conversion: http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=28890

Thanks guys,
But really need to know if its worth it for day to day driving?
Otherwise I'm going to have to get some combustion chamber mods done to bring down the comp.
The bottom end is together but the head is off.
And also what is the highest you can go with compression running 98ron?
10.5???
Cheers

had 11.5:1 (ish) on 98 just had to retard the timing a bit

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tradesafe: Dazda, 2ndTimeStanza, Qeleh, big mac, hatchman


1979 Datsun Sunny Wagon 13b Turbo conversion: http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=28890

that was on a l-series

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tradesafe: Dazda, 2ndTimeStanza, Qeleh, big mac, hatchman


1979 Datsun Sunny Wagon 13b Turbo conversion: http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=28890

this 180b act rally car

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tradesafe: Dazda, 2ndTimeStanza, Qeleh, big mac, hatchman


1979 Datsun Sunny Wagon 13b Turbo conversion: http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=28890