Im looking at getting a 4 point or even a 6 point full cage in my 1600.
Has anyone got some pics of a street driven roll cage set up?

im considering 4 point so it doesn't stand out so much but with side bars across the doors so when I slide it into a tree or a pole

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hrmmm maybe you should change your mentallity, that way you wont need a six pointer

lol jokes mate

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"Stroked is fun, but I'ld rather get blown"
"Redlines are merely suggestions"

my shrinking garage is down to.....
2x 1600s
1x GQ Tray back
1x 300ZX
1x FZR600

It may happen, One sr is build for 220rwks on 12psi.
one is over 260rwks.
But im even thinking the 220 will be more then plenty for the little 1600.
So just trying to keep on the safe side.

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better safe than sorry!!

Problem is that on the street a lot (most) cages are more dangerous than not having a cage at all. When used in conjunction with correct seats, harnesses and a helmet, cages offer incredible protection.

However, without the other stuff, a roll cage is just a mass of steel piping in your car, waiting to turn your skull into a pile of pink goo. The fact that the cage piping sits a lot closer to your head than the rest of the car's structure should ring some warning bells.

My advice: For the street - forget about cages and just revise your driving style. If you're doing serious track time with all the safety gear, then put in the best cage you can afford.

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They have drifting in forests now?
What will they think of next?

^^^ Good advice above.

Although, I plan on putting in the best cage I can afford in whatever future street cars I have, simply because I am not going to be buying a car with ABS/Airbags out the wazoo etc etc, and accidents happen.

Dave

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USA Daily: 2014 Nissan GT-R, very minor modifications for the track
USA Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. SOLD
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. SOLD

Warps, all valid points. I agree that the cage piping sits closer to your head, but then you have to place padding around the bars for it to be street legal. I would recommend that some of this padding would probably end up saving your life in an accident.
I personally will be running a cage in my 1600 which will be driven on the street (and on the track for that matter), and the reason behind this is because I agree with Dave. The 1600 doesn't run airbags (although someone might retro fit one ), and in a side impact, i'd rather be hit by a cage bending than the car folding itself into me. 1600's are light cars, they don't have the side reinforcing that a WRX, GTR or a commondore has. A cage compliments this and add rigidity where needed.

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1972 Datsun 1600, S14 SR20DET Engineered (204rwkW @ 17psi.)
viewtopic.php?t=6579
#SR20Datsun @SR20Datsun

Yeh, like so many other things, a roll cage is a compromise. A well fitted, effective cage will most likely need to cut into (or through) your dash, and will likely encroach into the cabin unless the roof lining is removed.

The cage in my RX2 is actually pretty good, and gives you a fair amount of movement. If I were only wearing a normal seat belt, I'd bet there's atill a fair chance my head would reach one of the bars in a decent accident. I'd rather have a crack in myhelmet than in my skull.

The padding used on roll cages is a joke. I doubt it would do very much at all in a serious impact. It's like putting a foam sleeve over a baseball bat, then expecting to survive someone trying to hit your head for a home run.

As I said, if it;s predominantly a track (or rally) oriented car that gets driven on the street occasionally, then you make the compromise. If it's primarily a street car, then think long and hard about the cage design, otherwise you could be putting yourself in more danger.

Ideally you want the cage to follow the roof line and pillars as closely as possible, to minimise the risk of damaging any part of your body on it.

Then there's the rego issues. That opens up another can of worms.

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They have drifting in forests now?
What will they think of next?

I agree with the cutting into the dash. Unfortunately it's something that has to be done with a well designed roll cage for a 1600.
Yep, I'd rather have a crack in my helmet than in my skull too!

Valid points about seats and seat belts. I reckon you're right too. With enough of a 'shunt', I reckon i'd probably hit my head on a cage too with a normal seat belt and seat. That's why i'm putting harnesses in, and fixed back seats!

Interesting what you say on padding. I guess it depends on the padding used. The engineer I'm currently using for my car recommends a certain strength of compression foam to use on the roll cage. He wont sign off on my car unless this foam is fitted. Personally i'd rather be hit with a blunt foam padded roll cage than the sharp edge of a 1600 B pillar collapsing.

The right foam can minimise injury. There was alot of research done (back in the 60's) about foam covered dash's. The Americans had a fascination with hard dash's (and not wearing seat belts too mind you) and the injuries they sustained were horrendous. Moving to impact foam dashes lessened the injuries, but obviously if you don't wear a seatbelt, they are still quite bad!

I agree with you all the way, correct cage design is a must, as the wrong design can cause serious head damage in an accident.

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1972 Datsun 1600, S14 SR20DET Engineered (204rwkW @ 17psi.)
viewtopic.php?t=6579
#SR20Datsun @SR20Datsun

You're right - probably a bit harsh on the padding. I know there is some very good padding out there, but to put it into perspective, look at the maths:

Say you crash at 100km/h, and you have 25mm of padding covering the bar. By the time your head reaches the padding, it's slowed to 60km/h (for argument's sake). For the padding to stop your head before it hits the solid steel, it would need to apply an average force of 4 tonnes to your head !!

Of course we know that even the hardest padding will compress with less than 50kg of force. This means that your head will only slow down from 60km/h to 59.8km/h before impacting with the cage.

The thing about a helmet is not that it will resist the 4 tonnes force, but it puts a bigger buffer between you and something solid, and it absorbs much of the energy. So, while your helmet is self destructing as the roll cage bar tries to go through it, it's dissipating enough energy to stop your skull from being crushed.

Make no mistake about it. The padding will not protect your bare head in a big impact. It's only there to help spread the force into your helmet, or protect you from bumping your head getting in and out of the car.

Having said all that, you're right - there are plenty of other things in a 1600 that can maim you in an accident. If you keep yourself well restrained in the car, you give yourself the best fighting chance despite all the "my uncle rolled his car when he was 17, and the only thing that saved him was because he wasn't wwearing a seat belt. He got thrown out of the car just before it rolled down a cliff and exploded into a fireball stories you hear

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They have drifting in forests now?
What will they think of next?

I agree, and my point is, I'd rather be hit with a padded strengthened roll cage member, than a non padded, slightly further away and buckling, sharp Datsun B pillar!
Other than that comment i've just made (as you'd probably want to wear a helmet and so would I for that matter!), I'm with you all the way.

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1972 Datsun 1600, S14 SR20DET Engineered (204rwkW @ 17psi.)
viewtopic.php?t=6579
#SR20Datsun @SR20Datsun

i disagree with cutting into the dash. ANDRA specifies that a roll cage installed into a car that runs between 10.00 - 10.99 and not more than 140mp/h requires following structures;

- fixed hoop over drivers head,
- diagonal drivers side intrusion bar (bolted not fixed)
- two bolted back stays

i dont know about type of material, welds, size of tubes etc but there is another post on here about that.
i also dont know how cage specs, rules of ANDRA, CAMS, RTA etc work together but thats the bracket i intend to run in and dont wanna get kicked off WSID after one run for non compliance.

seeing as most guys here intend building a mild 1600 with no desires to run quicker than tens, this setup (should?) cover most ppl's cage needs, be much more friendly than farking around with a six point (and less costly). a rear seat is still feasible.
i have to run a cage for 1/4 mile fun. not having one is not an option.

hey nick, i read somewhere that you had a cage installed in yours? couldnt find it in your thread tho...

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1600 with FJ20 & Simmons. something different.

ANDRA is only for quarter mile fun. The possibility of hitting the other car, flipping your car etc. going down a drag strip

CAMS requirements (and ASAA?) require a tougher set of rules for a cage particularly for the Targa events. The Targa events require a minimum 6 point cage, with 2 diagonals on the roof plus side intrusion. etc. etc.
The more you can tie the cage structure into the A, B and C pillars the better. Therefore connection to the A pillar may require cutting of the dash. Depends on who does your cage.

Andra requirements are suitable for quarter mile runs really. You aren't going to hit a tree head on or side ways at 200+km/h (basically the highest percentage of accidents at Targa were head on or side impact).
Targa cage > Drag cage any day of the week.

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1972 Datsun 1600, S14 SR20DET Engineered (204rwkW @ 17psi.)
viewtopic.php?t=6579
#SR20Datsun @SR20Datsun

ok, point taken but i dont intend to do any targa events. dedicated setup to drags, street fun and occasional wakefield.

btw, what cams class license do guys use for wakefield track days? do you need a cage?

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1600 with FJ20 & Simmons. something different.

CAMS L2S is the go for anything short of door-to-door racing (eg Improved Production, etc). Around $105-ish from memory.

If its only for Wakefield, you can get an AASA clubman licence cheaper ($55, I believe) although I just go with a CAMS one as they are accepted at more events. Until a few weeks ago, I've never entered an event where a CAMS licence wasn't accepted. That particular event is at Lakeside, run under an AASA permit, and required me to get an AASA clubman licence. Not sure if that's typical up there ?

You don't need a cage at all until you get into some serious stuff on the tar (dirt is stricter, I guess because the likelihood of a roll is higher). Track days and club-level stuff like supersprints don't require one at all.

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1970 ex Group A Rally P510
1971 P510
1972 180B SSS
1965 SP310 Fairlady
1966 SP311 Fairlady