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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:46 pm
Posts: 59
Yeah, those pictures aren't great but I used the camera to observe the entire exhaust stroke on two cylinders, and it was quite clear that at its closest point of approach, I have neither 100" nor 1.5mm clearance (closer to 10", if that). Unfortunately I did not think of the whole plasticine test until afterwards. The camera was only $160 from Bursons, and I would highly recommend it - they come in very handy...

And having read that Racer Brown link (and reread quite a few sections if I'm honest..), I've decided I need a new cam anyway because a) I do not have time to pull the pistons out and notch them (which I definitely need to do to run any more than standard lift, or much more than standard duration with this shaved head - especially seeing as I want at least the minimum 100" piston/valve clearance, maybe more as this will be a road car and I want it to last as long as possible), and b) it would have been overcammed anyway. Would've been fun, but not what I was wanting for this car (at this stage). Cam specs are 495" lift, 272 duration (204 at .050"), 62 degrees overlap. It is the 812C grind found at http://tighecams.com.au/cars.htm (Nissan -> L Series -> 4th from the top). I do not have a degree wheel, but I stuffed around for ages with an adjustable cam sprocket, and I'm fairly confident that I set it up right with around 6 degrees advance.

On the school project bit, thanks for the idea (and I may well have to resort to that if I cannot finish this engine on time *properly*), but it's meant to be a design project - doing this is already sketchy enough (pretty much allowed only because I insisted - quite strongly - that I did not want to spend my time and money on a useless sculpture or chair or something), but I have talked to the teacher and basically it will be very bad if the engine isn't running... Having said that, I'd rather finish it properly later on, write some fancy writing and take my chances with the markers rather than screw up my engine on the chance it'll last long enough to keep them happy... But for all intents and purposes, as far as my HSC is concerned, it's got to be running :/ . I am, however, very glad that I know about Ozdat now - better late than never!! Thanks for that risk assessment advice too, I think that is going to come in very handy... Especially as I now have to install the standard cam to see how much clearance I have, and then try and guess what cam to go for... I'm thinking the 312 grind which is slightly improved over a standard SSS grind, but it's less safe than a standard SSS grind (which I don't really want to spend $500 on...). After speaking to Tighe Cams, the 312 is where I want to be at for what I want in terms of performance, driveability and with the head setup I have. Hmmm, decisions....

And thanks again for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

_________________
Keeping the ole Stanzas alive - long live the SSS!!!! :cheers
The Money Pits:
The Datto http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33671
Rusty http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33866
The Red Rockethttp://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33869


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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:09 am
Posts: 2596
Location: Lonsdale, South Australia
Any cam from a 200B,bluebird that has not been ground & has a 'B' stamped on the rear of the cam is suitable.
This is SSS valve timing. If you set & marked exact TDC when the head was off, set this cam at TDC when the notch on the camsprocket
is aligned. As in sighting a rifle. Use #1 on the sprocket. check this when there is no slack in the chain & turning the engine over in rotation direction
at least once to check.

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"R.I.P. Baz. 29 April 2022. Thank you for all your contributions to the Datsun community over the years. You will be missed." - OZDAT


Last edited by Baz on Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:46 pm
Posts: 59
The 312 cam is suppposed to be a slightly improved SSS cam, reckon that'll work? Because there are basically no Datsun parts around here, I've rung around all the wreckers and everywhere I can think of - I can't even get a standard 1600/180B cam!!!
Do I still need to relocate that tensioner by drilling and tapping new holes, like you said on Nads post?

_________________
Keeping the ole Stanzas alive - long live the SSS!!!! :cheers
The Money Pits:
The Datto http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33671
Rusty http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33866
The Red Rockethttp://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33869


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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:46 pm
Posts: 59
Just as an update, I have now successfully researched on this forum what a rocker wipe test is (thanks guys!! :thumbsup: ). And I can tell straight away that my rocker guides are far too thin and my wipe test is way off... Good thing I didn't try running it... :oops: (and again, 1000 thanks!! :hug: ). So, I definitely need to order some lashcaps. Should I wait until my new cam arrives, or should I just get a whole bunch of different thicknesses and figure out which ones I need (assuming that isn't going to be mega expensive...). :?
Wish I'd known all this earlier, but better late than never :thumbsup: Now I'm up against the clock though...

_________________
Keeping the ole Stanzas alive - long live the SSS!!!! :cheers
The Money Pits:
The Datto http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33671
Rusty http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33866
The Red Rockethttp://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33869


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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:33 pm
Posts: 467
Location: on the computer
Not really sure how you know your cam is timed right?

How exactly did you set it up?

Did you have a dial gauge on the valves?

If your cam timing is way out, then this will throw your piston to valve clearance out. Was the piston to valve clearance the same on the inlet as exhaust.

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When the sign says "don't feed the bears", man you better not feed the bears.


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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:46 pm
Posts: 59
And, another update. After having a chat to Baz (Thanks heaps mate for your time and experience!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: It's much appreciated and very welcome!), I have decided to roll with the standard cam that came with it, but on 'position 1' on the cam wheel rather than the book 'position 2' in order to get the SSS timing. This will also work with my standard Hitachi carburettors.

However, this is only a temporary solution... After all this HSC crap is over, I have decided that I will pull the engine and do it again, properly, taking my time and doing my research, and getting it perfect. At the same time I will get the engine bay and underneath the car perfect (rather than the odd patch here and there that I've been doing), along with suspension etc. So, sit back, relax, and grab some popcorn, because this is going to be a long term project/build/question/tutorial/whatever-you-call-it thread... And at the end of it all (if it ever ends :chaching: :giggle: ) I will have an absolutely amazing SSS! I'm going to be focusing both on driveability and performance - for an all out performance thread, keep an eye my Red Rocket build thread ;)

Also, a big shoutout to Dean at Ivan Tighe Engineering! I've read some pretty crap reviews on the internet, but these are all several years old, and very true - at the time. However, I'm not sure what was going on back then, but there's been a management change at some point and recently I've heard nothing but good things about them, and my personal experiences have been very good. My first 180B regrind cam that I was going to use was turned around within a week (as in I got it back in a week) and they were very reasonable with pricing. While I haven't run the cam yet, I am very happy with the results, and they have been very helpful with choosing and ordering valve springs etc.
The reason for this shoutout however is, I emailed them about an hour ago for a 312 billet cam (as mentioned previously), and after deciding to use the old cam I rang Dean up to cancel the order - but despite being very busy he'd already done one lobe and had started on the second! He said it'd be ready to post tonight, before the public holiday.Whether the cam is any good remains to be seen, obviously, but from my experience up to this point I am very happy with them! Of course I will keep everyone posted on what the cams are like, whether I find any issues with them etc but for now, I am extremely satisfied.

As for my cam timing, I had the crank at TDC (I managed to figure that out approximately within half a degree - a degree) and then set up the cam in relation to it, lined up my marks, and bingo. I have an adjustable cam sprocket with many different holes, and I measured the angles between each hole and the corresponding timing marks, to figure out how much advance/retard the cam would have. I also double checked by checking the marks on the back of the cam pulley itself in relation to the elongated timing mark on the cam thrust plate - I'll get some pictures before I pull it all apart. I then got a protractor and double checked how many degrees the cam was advanced (within perhaps 1/4 - 1/2 a degree) and multiplied this by 2 to get cam advance in crank degrees. If that makes sense? It's hard to explain, but I'm fairly confident that I got 6 degrees cam advance within 1 degree tolerance.
Not that it matters any more seeing as I am going back to the old cam on position 1, just for the sake of this damn project. :roll:

_________________
Keeping the ole Stanzas alive - long live the SSS!!!! :cheers
The Money Pits:
The Datto http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33671
Rusty http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33866
The Red Rockethttp://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33869


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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:46 pm
Posts: 59
Got my other cam today. No pictures yet, as my camera died - forgot to charge it overnight. Seems alright, to my untrained eye. Nothing obviously wrong at any rate. I'll put the old cam in the engine, and put the engine on the stand for the project (along with some good writing, hopefully I'll get through - it'll be pushing it too close to get the car done by then, and frankly I don't want my nice straight datto sitting in the schools crappy old bus bay for a month until it gets marked...
However I can't use the old cam to run it, as it has rather excessive wear... (I'll get some pictures up when I can). So long term I've either got to regrind it or see how this new 312 cam goes (and muck around with the Hitachi needles if I decide to run this engine for a while seeing as I've got so much invested in it - fun...).

Fun fact: as Baz mentioned, the Stanzas (along with 200Bs and Bluebirds) came with SSS cams but 4 degrees too advanced (position 2 instead of 1 on the cam sprocket) to increase overlap (I think - someone correct me if I remember incorrectly) in order to reduce NOx emissions. Retarding the cam to position 1 (assuming the chain is not stretched) will give you SSS timing. However, on the Stanzas (I'm not sure about 200Bs and Bluebirds), the back of the cam is stamped 'C' instead of 'B' (which as Baz said, is the SSS cam marking). Still a SSS cam, but marked differently. Go figure.

Finally, I have a question. What alternatives do I have to get the excess slack out of the timing chain caused by my shaven head without shimming the cam towers (I don't want to go there) or drilling new holes for the tensioner (I'm not sure how to get oil to it, as the oil gallery will be exposed if I move it over to where I want it - also, I don't want to drill holes in this block as that's irreversible, and I don't want to do anything irreversible to this particular datto - it's rather sentimental for me)?
I believe Racer Brown mentioned extending the tube that goes into the tensioner housing - has anyone does this? Does anyone know how hard that is? And does anyone have any other suggestions?

Cheers in advance!

_________________
Keeping the ole Stanzas alive - long live the SSS!!!! :cheers
The Money Pits:
The Datto http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33671
Rusty http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33866
The Red Rockethttp://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33869


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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:46 pm
Posts: 59
Update:
Got the engine into school on time. Ish. Anyway, it's submitted now, and will be marked in 2 weeks, before I can take it home, get my cam in and install it. I also have some new stainless bolts for the rocker timing covers, and have replated all the other original bolts/fuel and coolant lines etc.

_________________
Keeping the ole Stanzas alive - long live the SSS!!!! :cheers
The Money Pits:
The Datto http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33671
Rusty http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33866
The Red Rockethttp://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33869


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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 5357
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Congrats man. Good to hear.

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 Post subject: Re: 1981 Stanza SSS
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:46 pm
Posts: 59
Minor update - haven't done much recently due to health issues, finding a reliable daily issue (I've gone through 4 so far :/), etc etc. Engine has been sitting on a stand in the garage for a while unfortunately. Anyway I have had the timing chain tensioner modified by Douglas Engineering to extend the piston to take up the extra slack in the chain without over-extending and falling out, and without drilling and tapping new holes in the block etc to relocate it closer to the chain. Revised cam is in, piston/valve clearance is sweet, rocker wipe tests will be done this weekend, and engine will be in very soon all being well...

_________________
Keeping the ole Stanzas alive - long live the SSS!!!! :cheers
The Money Pits:
The Datto http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33671
Rusty http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33866
The Red Rockethttp://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=33869


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