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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:25 am 
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Nice write up there Ross.

What TIG welder did you end up getting? That's on my list next.

I'm surprised you are having so many issues with noise, maybe because my hearing is so bad I think mine is not too loud. I only run the one magnaflow and nothing else on my car.

Keen to see how you go with the diff as well. Keep the updates coming.

Cheers,

Trent

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:30 am 
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Ross,
Love the work on the muffler. Definitely interested to know how it goes. What you have done does make sense. Just make sure you pack all the original stuffing in as best you can! If it works, I will be doing exactly the same thing.

The 12mm dia holes on the new diff centre can be adapted using some spacers that SWM (Stewart Wilkins) makes. They convert the 12mm down to 10mm and allow you to find the centre into your older style R200.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:06 pm 
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Hey Trent, I bought a Lincoln Powercraft 201 ac/dc. I haven't used it on Ally yet, but it works really well on DC. Its a bit different to the welder i've used in the past, but this one didn't cost me $6000!
All the welders in the <$2500 price bracket are made in china. I figured i'd go with lincoln rather than the rebranded Jasic machines from unimig or the cigweld welder just because i've got a lincoln180c Mig and it's been fantastic.
This one also has quite a bit of adjustability in things like pre and post gas flow, pulse rate and all the good things.

In terms of the noise. I've got pretty sensitive hearing compared to most people. THAT is my biggest issue and i've had some tinnitus since i was about 18 y/o. I need to preserve my hearing as best i can. That's why i'm so anal about making it quieter, because i just can't enjoy driving it, so i don't want to use it which means i won't work on it and improve it. I just hope that i can fix it before the love is gone!

Hey Nick,
Yeah I know he does. Dad rallyed with him back in the day. His workshop is only about a 50min drive, maybe less from mine. 20min from my Girlfriends place. I was just hoping not to have to make the trip down there because i'm pretty strapped for time these days! Turns out i might have to though because i couldn't find a spacer that i need. I need a bit of pipe with a 13mm outside diameter and a 10mm hole in the centre. Unfortunately I don't have access to accurate machining equipment. Although my mate who's an industrial tech teacher at a local high school does... I could ask him nicely and give him a case of pepsi-max for his time. He doesn't do alcohol???

In regards to the muffler, repacking the thing was easy. I still haven't had the chance to take the car out this weekend, but i'll advise. I do know for certain that reducing the tailpipe down to 2" compared to 2.5" does make a difference. Don't think that it hurts the performance too much either as i had previously experimented with having a 2" restrictor in the exhaust to see if it made any difference.

Now in terms of the diff, what do you guy's think my chances are of drilling and tapping a 12mm thread into the crownwheel?

Also, I need to work out how to get this nylon bit out for the cv. SO that i don't melt it when i weld the plate on.
Attachment:
[ attachment ]
Nylon bush inside cv cup.jpg [ 369.55 KiB | Viewed 5743 times ]
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[ attachment ]
CV tripod.jpg [ 391.42 KiB | Viewed 5743 times ]
Also, need to decide what back hat to use. The s15 or the 260z. Differences being, the studs are at a different location on both. The S15 diff cover looks better, but also uses 10mm bolts instead of 8mm bolts!
Attachment:
[ attachment ]
Diff Hat Comparison.jpg [ 608.09 KiB | Viewed 5743 times ]

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:51 am 
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So i've ran into my first hiccup but fortunately looks to be pretty easy to solve.

I've made a mock up of the plate that I would need just out of 3mm MDF to see where the bolts for the companion flanges would sit. Unfortunately, where I wanted to place the flange on the CV cup from the S15 is too wide to allow it to bolt through. It leaves me with about 2mm of space which is not enough.
Attachment:
[ attachment ]
Mock Up.jpg [ 490.62 KiB | Viewed 5736 times ]
The solution is to put the cv cup into the lathe and machine it down to 50mm instead of 58mm. The only thing i'm concerned about is how that will affect the structural integrity of the part. I am also going to struggle to get nuts on the back of this part, So i may need to machine down the round part just behind it also. Hopefully these pics will make what I want to do a bit clearer.
Attachment:
[ attachment ]
Mock Up 2.jpg [ 514.39 KiB | Viewed 5736 times ]

_________________
Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:41 pm 
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Hey Ross,

Thanks for the info on the TIG. It has to be my next toy :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Ok Nick,
I've taken the old girl for a drive since. I removed my 600mm long resonator because that just dropped the sound down too low for my liking.
It really hasn't changed the loudness of the exhaust. I braced it off the gearbox mount and I think that might have cause a bit of additional cabin sound. But it actually sounds really nice now. Almost has a throaty growl to it. Still sounds like an SR, but sounds better than it did.
No difference to the resonance that was annoying me.
But I'll revisit this project when I can be bothered at a later date!
Attachment:
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For now I've been focusing on my Diff.
This is the helical diff centre with the top cap off to inspect the gears and make sure they're all good.
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File comment: The inside Helical Gears
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20160812_094701.jpg [ 1.17 MiB | Viewed 5689 times ]
This is the helical gearset for those who have not seen one before:
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[ attachment ]
20160812_204712.jpg [ 1.3 MiB | Viewed 5689 times ]
I asked my mate really nicely (who's got access to a metal lathe) to make up some bushings for me:
Attachment:
[ attachment ]
20160813_101124.jpg [ 838.88 KiB | Viewed 5689 times ]
They're within .01mm tolerance to what I want. They sat pretty perfect.
That allowed me to bolt my 10mm crownwheel onto my 12mm centre.

Now I discovered when I was pulling the centre out and inspecting it, that the guy before me had taken the pinion flange off already, so I had lost the pre-load on the pinion bearing.
I pressed out the pinion gear and cleaned up and inspected the bearing. It seems ok, but I've reinstalled it with a new oil seal and it's not spinning that great :(

Now i've got a Pinion bearing from the S15 donor diff that i'm considering pressing off and installing onto the long nose one, In fact i think I might do that because the side bearings on the old centre were shagged, so the pinion bearing is probably gone also.

Workshop manual says torque the pinion flange on to 137-159 ft-lb. Mine is obviously a used bearing, so i've torqued it up to about 130 ft-lb to try and "guess" the correct pinion pre-load taking into consideration the wear it would have had.
Then I installed the centre back into the housing.

I have two sets of shims, so i played around (these bearings have plenty of pre-load), and the best I could come up with on my dial indicator for back-lash is 0.4mm.
Fair way away from the 0.10 - 0.15mm that is Nissan's acceptable tolerance.

I haven't put any paste on yet to see the wipe pattern, but i don't know if I can get it much better because I don't have enough shims. It could be that the Pinion is sitting too low or high relative to the crown wheel, so all these variables are going through my head and i've got limited tools to address it.

I don't like doing it, but I might have to take it to someone to set it up for me :oops:

_________________
Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:03 am 
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Ross, thanks for the feedback on the muffler. I think the only way to remove the resonance is to go for a reflective style muffler?
I assume after you removed the brace/bracket to the gearbox the sound didn't change? Mine is currently connected by bracket to the gearbox mount. I was thinking of putting in a braided join to remove vibrational transfer, but I'm not sure I need it. I think just tweak the hotdog/resonator to remove any issues..

Having gone through diff setup for my car, I can certainly vouch for getting another set of eyes to check the setup and make sure everything is setup correctly. I took my diff twice to a place and twice it came back with nasty noises due to poor setup.
I have now purchased another diff to transfer my centre across while I figure out what is going on with the other one.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:06 am 
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I didn't appreciate how much of a specialist area this is. Great to see that you still have a keen interest in the car Ross. Keep the updates coming though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:05 am 
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Yeah, i think that you're right Nick. I think we're both on the same page too. I had a look at the 1/4 wave resonator and tried that once but it was a bit too long to fit comfortably. I'm wondering if I will have any luck with a 1/8 wave length resonator which will be much more manageable. If i can incorporate that into the muffler design, then that will be the go. I have a few idea's of how I might be able to cancel some sound, a bit of trial and error, but, i'll leave that for a rainy day.

I originally had a flexible bellow where my Cat was, and the cat was behind that. I took the bellow off and moved the Cat up further and tucked it up higher so its got about 3mm clearance from the gearbox. It is well out of the way. In terms of sound, I noticed no difference from having it there to removing it. HOWEVER, i did not have the system braced off the gearbox at that time.

In my last attempt at playing with the system, I added the brace to the gearbox mount. I feel that it made it vibrate a little bit, but not much that i'd worry about it. I might cut off the mount at the pipe end, then fab a bracket with holes that will allow me to bolt it and unbolt the mount off the gearbox to test. Then i can make sure.

Yes, i think you guy's are right. I think if i had access to the tools and a range of different sized shims, then I would be able to go close to setting it up myself. Unfortunately, I don't. Now i just need to find someone who can do it for me.

Today, I will transfer the pinion gear from my donor diff onto the long nose one just to make sure i've got a newer one in there.

_________________
Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:46 pm 
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Alrighty, so not much of an update, but it looks like everything is going ahead ok for now.

I've been in contact with a NSW guy here who's the name in the game in terms of getting custom axles made or current ones re-splined.
Now in the process of working out the length. Pretty sure i'm going to go with the 3x2 tripod style cv's as they are the same as the S15 run. Looks like i can respline those axles for a reasonable cost.
Now need to workout how i'm going to make the part that connects onto the Datsun companion flange, or source MR30 or 280zx companion flanges to bolt the CV cup to.

But, also need to work out the length to machine the CV shaft to.

Off to do some research, but if someone know's already and could save me the work, i wouldn't say no!

Or, if you know the width of an R200 with half shafts (3x2) compared to an R160.
And what is the difference in width each side, Ie, I thought I read that the left side axle needs to be shorter?
then that would also help!

When i get a decent update, i'll attach some pics!

_________________
Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:27 am 
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Hey Ross.
I used 3x2 280zx outers.
I have a pair of snapped axles you can have.
Might be useful for working out your lengths.
Be aware the shortest point is not when the axle is parallel to the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:49 pm 
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Hey Andrew, cheers mate that'd be fantastic if i could. I'll have to find a time when I'm coming down your way and I'll call in, would love to check out how the sports sedan is gong too!
I've moved heaps further up the mountains since you came around a few years back.

Yep, swing arms move inwards as the go up. I have thought though, that if I can measure the width of the r200 with flanges and the extra difference in width left and right compared to the r180 diff. Then i could measure my standard drive shaft compressed length and just subtract the difference, that should make the shaft the correct length!
I did some searching of lengths on here last night and found a measurement of 355mm centre to centre of the cv's. I measured mine and i think it will work if that measurement is actually 255mm.

But still in the planning phase.

Finding 280zx flanges is going to be hard i think.

_________________
Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:55 am 
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Hi Ross, Using the tripod joints gives you more freedom of length due to the design of the joint. Have used these on some high HP SRs with not a problem. I think I may have a pair of the R30 or 280 flanges left. Will check tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Hey Baz! Good to hear from you mate,
Yes I've seen some of yours only on pics but i read elsewhere that you thought they were a good option.

Some S15's put out some big numbers with std axles so i thought that they should be strong.
Really appreciate it if you could have a look. You wouldn't happen to have the shaft length written down somewhere too would you?

If not then that's ok, I'll do some measuring and might even Cad simulate it so that i can know for sure.

Cheers!

_________________
Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re: Ross' New 1600
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:22 pm 
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For those who are following along, i've done some measuring and below i'm going to explain what is going on without intentionally trying to confuse you all for CV shaft lengths for an R200 with S15 Centre and half shafts.

Calculating the shaft length for CV conversion:
I measured a spare r180 with r160 stub axles in and measured the r200 with stub axles in, side to side from where the R200 bolts into the cross member.
Using some simple measurements and calculations, the R200 is 50mm longer on the passenger side, and 38mm +_ longer on the drivers side flange to flange compared to the R180.

The difference between the two sides of the R200, is approximately 12mm, that is, the R200 is 12mm longer on the Passenger's (LHS) than the drivers.

The Datsun 510 drive shaft is (approximately; Flange to Flange):
390mm Compressed
430mm Extended.

So, if we make both drive shafts the same length and have them so that their effective compressed length minus the extra width of the R200 on the passenger side, that will avoid the binding issue common when using standard 510 drive shafts with R200/260z stub axles.

So, the new CV shaft needs to be (flange to flange):
340mm on full compression
380mm on full extension.

The tripod CV cups, allow for 40mm of movement each side if i use the same ones each end, that's 80mm total of extra length on full extension. Or double the extension of the standard 1600 shaft.

So, doing some quick measurements, i have calculated that i will need shaft length of 310mm, which will allow a compressed length of 340mm. Unfortunately, I can not achieve this as there is a tapered section on the S15 shaft which will not accept machining of the new spline.
Therefore, the next closest is 270mm centre to centre of each CV end.
That will allow me a compressed length of 300-310mm, and a fully extended length of 380mm.

That is 30/40mm shorter than required and will extend to the same length of the standard 1600 shaft.

This measurement may change dependent on if there is extra length of R30/280 tripod companion flange compared to the 1600 items.

That's what I've got so far.

_________________
Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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