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 Post subject: Replacing sill panels
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Perth
Hey peoples,

I'm in the process of doing the usual rustoration of my '69 1600 and have a bit of a query regarding replacing the sills.
I've done a bit of a search on here and Datnet with no luck.

The sills have rust holes basically the whole way along them so replacement is definitely in order. Obviously you have to remove the spotwelds along the bottom edge. With the top, do you just have to cut along the top flat suface of the sill and weld the new one on along the top?

If there is a panel beating guru out there or someone that has done sills themselves who knows that would be great. I am on a fairly tight budget so I am trying to do as much as I can myself. I'm not trying for a show car finish, just something reasonable as a daily driver.

Graham


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:08 pm 
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They are spot-welded on at the top as well.

Just drill out the spotwelds all round the sill, fit the new one, clamp it into place and spotweld back in again.

I only have oxy, so I use plug-welding. My version of this consists of drilling a hole in one of the pieces to be joined, then clamping the two together. Now just weld through the hole in the top piece, fuse the top and bottom pieces together, adding a bit of filler rod to fill the hole if neccessary.

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1970 ex Group A Rally P510
1971 P510
1972 180B SSS
1965 SP310 Fairlady
1966 SP311 Fairlady


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:11 pm 
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I had a bit more of a look at it. I can see where there is spotwelds in the door frame where the windlacing would go on but nothing further down the sill. All the replacement sills I have seen don't go up this far so I was assuming you would have to cut and weld somwhere along the top of the sill :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:50 pm 
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Sorry, can't help there.

The replacement sills I used were made up at a local sheetmetal place.

I cut out a 6" long piece of the original sill, including drilling out spotwelds top and bottom, then got them to fold up two pieces to the same pattern. I just had to make up the bit on the front end, then fit them.

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1970 ex Group A Rally P510
1971 P510
1972 180B SSS
1965 SP310 Fairlady
1966 SP311 Fairlady


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:42 am 
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Location: Adelaide...On the Road again !
How bad are these sills ???
Any pics for us ???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:30 pm 
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Location: Perth
I haven't got any pics at the moment, will see if I can arrange some.
To give you some idea there was holes ranging in size from 1-2mm up to about 8 mm for at least half the length of the sill after I hit it with a wire brush so I am assuming that the inside of the sill must have a fair bit of rust going on :!:

I got hold of a replacement sill panel and I'm not sure what was used to take the measurements for the repair panel but it certainly isn't the same as the original sill. It would have to be at least 10 mm higher :shock:

That was a nice waste of money :evil:

I think I will have to just cut a section out and get a sheetmetal shop to make some up for me


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:06 pm 
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Location: Wollongong
Yeah, my 180BSSS has rusted sills. I'm just gonna cut everything off (it's all rusted) and get some custom side skirts made. Ok, that's slightly joke, i'm getting a sheet metal shop to fold me some new sills which arn't the original shape.

The only reason for this is it's easier in my case.

Also, the OXY is the way to go putting it back on ay? What have other people used?
How suitable would pop-rivets be?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:40 pm 
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I'm in the middle of this shitty job at the moment. The sills are longer so you have a bit of room to work with. we are restoring 30+ year old cars so new pannels are going to be different.
You will need to borrow a drop saw to cut them straight. Yes you cut the first tear out under the doors. Leave around 1/2 and inch of the metal. Grind it down so the new panel will sit just a bit higher. Ounce you have done this get the new sill lined up perfect. Trace all edges ounce it is clamped in. Now take it back off. You will need to find a way to drop the older metal so your new sill will sit flush. I'm up to this bit. I plan to spot weld the new sill in with my mig. I'm still unsure how I will make the front end section. Hope this helps mate. Take your time. If your not sure don't keep cutting metal you may regret it. I find if I get tired the work I do becomes a bit messy. So I leave it until the next day. This is the only way you will get a good job done With Time. Cheers

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:21 pm 
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I made the front section by first making a pattern out of an old lump of hardwood. Well, to be honest, I got my father to do it :oops: , as he was a shipwright (ship's carpenter) and was used to making patterns.

This was sized to fit inside the front end of the sill. Next, I got some thin cardboard (ie poster stuff from a newsagent) and carefully "wrapped" it around the hardwood pattern, using scissors to trim excess from where it folded over on itself as the sill got smaller at the end.

Finally, I traced the cardboard template onto a section of my newly folded sills, cut the excess bits out with tinsnips, firmly clamped it all down and then shaped it around the hardwood pattern using a hammer and sometimes a small cold chisel to punch it down into concave areas. I also tried using heat from the oxy to help shaping the metal, but this tended to burn the hardwood pattern so I gave up on it. Fianlly, welded up the cut areas, reshaped a bit with hammer and dolly, took to it with an angle grinder and it looked pretty much like it should have. A bit rough in spots, but better than a rusty mess. I reckon I could get quite a professional looking job after a few more attempts, but I have no desire to do it any more times than I have too :D

I didn't attempt to form this on the end of a complete sill, but rather onto a section about 300mm long, then welded this back onto the correct length of sill before fitting to the car. Only because I lacked the confidence to manage larger lengths.

First side took ages, but once I was happy the second side went quicker. You still need two mirror image hardwood blocks though.

Only cost something like $30 for the sills from the sheetmetal place, and a few weekends of my time.

And fr3ak, I will soon be attempting to make 180B SSS sills plus the section of the rear quarter in front of the rear wheel, this time using a template made more like an model aeroplane wing (ribs and stuff) to try to get the corect rounded shape. I use oxy cause thats all I have, but I reckon pop rivets are getting a bit on the weak side for the sills, which add a fair bit to the structural strength of the shell.

_________________
1970 ex Group A Rally P510
1971 P510
1972 180B SSS
1965 SP310 Fairlady
1966 SP311 Fairlady


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:46 am 
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Location: Adelaide...On the Road again !
Dave,
My Great-Grandad was a shipwright. :D
He worked on the Queen Mary. I still have his tool box with 70+ year old wooden tools. Even a few wooden planes. Seems they sometimes made their own tools back then.
Skills like that are rarely taught anymore. Is a shame.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 1380
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
Revisiting an old thread...
I'm needing to either get someone to do the panel repairs on my car. Sills, Floor and Rear quarters and all the other usual 1600 spots.
Or... attempt the repairs myself. And i'm leaning more to this as an option. For learning purposes, and to save a bit of coin. I feel confident enough to do it, as long as i can see the proper way.
It looks like some of you have done it, it would be great if you could post up some pics of things that you have done. Even make a sort of tutorial on body repairs for us who would like a sort of guide. Just a suggestion.

I was slightly confused by with what you were saying here MYDATO.
Quote:
Trace all edges ounce it is clamped in. Now take it back off. You will need to find a way to drop the older metal so your new sill will sit flush.
I understand the drilling out of the spot welds part. But whats this drop the older metal?

Also, I haven't really taken the whole paint and filler off yet, but where does the sill extend from and what are the actual sections that it is made up of? I know that it welds onto the rear dog leg (which mine needs repairs also) but it looks to be installed in sections (stops where it hits the B pillar - then continues up to the a pillar). Does this need any special consideration to get it right?

Few questions.
  • 1. When you weld the new sill on, do you just but it up to the existing metal and weld it back into place, then grind the weld back down. seal it and add any filler if necessary? is that the general gist of repair work? How do you prevent warpage? or should it be ok with the Argon Gas with Mig?
    2. How do you make sure that everything is aligned properly? Looks like part of the sill in my car sits underneath the dog leg at the back, and underneath the front section? Do you just go by sight? or should you take careful measurements? what parts? Because i can't be sure that the doors are aligned properly due to other accident damage :( .
    3. Whats the best way to shape the front section of the sill? Just cut the sill so that you can form it into that triangle box section, then weld it together?
    4. Whats the best way to put a new nut on the bottom of the sill? Just drill a hole and weld the nut on there? should it be measured before putting the guard on and weld it in one go? Or should you wait until the guard is all on, align it properly, then drill a new hole, and weld a new nut in?
This is just for sills to, haven't got onto quarter panel repairs yet! But would really appreciate a bit of clear up and help on this topic.
Then i'll see if i feel confident enough to do it myself.

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Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Posts: 5
My name is Dave and Im located near Penrith. Ive been professionally restoring cars for over 20 years and can help you with your sills. Give me a call 0413766501 and you can come over. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:42 pm 
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when i weld them on,i drill lots of holes a inch apart in the new sill,where it s spot welded from factory(top and bottom).then i just plug weld them and you get a factory look,take your time and only chop 1 side off at a time and weld the newie on before doin other side,other wise you can accidently distort the whole shell,the sills are part of its chassis/frame,so dont even think about using pop rivets :lol:

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68 510 - soon to be restored into a replica 68sss
69 510 - current build - L20b turbo
91 GT turbo legacy
GET THAT DATSUN DIFFERENCE!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:13 pm 
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Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
Haha, Pop rivets, who you kidding datdrift?! lets not get sophisticated here! I was just going to glue them back on with araldite :shock:

ummm.. nooo :roll:

Nup, in all seriousness, i'm planning on doing a proper job, but i'd like to have a got at it myself if i'm not going to stuff it up so its unrepairable. Or get someone to teach me as i go along? Maybe i should post pics of it in the members rides section? I was planning on doing what you said and drilling out the spot welds, and removing the old panel, i like the idea of getting one folded up to the same specs, then clamping it on the car, aligning it properly (which is one part i'm trying to understand properly), then marking through the old welds with a texta where to drill a hole on the new sill panel. Take it off and drill the holes, or drill through the existing holes, then weld it back on.

Suppose that i could weld through the holes on the chassis that i drilled through to remove the old sill, or would it be best not to go all the way through to begin with?

Also, there is a chance that the car can still distort with one sill off, thats whats got me with the alignment, so would it be better to brace the car somehow to make sure that it doesn't distort the chassis. OR. would it be better to leave the car on all four wheels (or supported as such) so that it simulates the stresses of being on the road before welding in the new section? That way it doesn't pre-load the body on different angles or give alignment problems later? I'm not sure, is anyone able to clarify?

bootlegger, will get in touch, cheers.

_________________
Ongoing Project: 1972 Datsun 510 S13 SR20Det. http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=17898
New Daily: D22 Navara (The new workhorse)
Retired 12/2016: MY98 Subaru Impreza RX
Previous Car: Restored Green 1972 Datsun 510, Hot L18


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:44 am 
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Location: SUNSHINE COAST QLD
fr3ak wrote:
Yeah, my 180BSSS has rusted sills. I'm just gonna cut everything off (it's all rusted) and get some custom side skirts made. Ok, that's slightly joke, I'm getting a sheet metal shop to fold me some new sills which arn't the original shape.

The only reason for this is it's easier in my case.

Also, the OXY is the way to go putting it back on ay? What have other people used?
How suitable would pop-rivets be?
RJB510 wrote:
Haha, Pop rivets, who you kidding datdrift?! lets not get sophisticated here! I was just going to glue them back on with araldite :shock:

ummm.. nooo :roll:


This wasnt my idea :lol: ,I was said dont even think about it :wink: read it properly mate :blahblah:

sit the car level on blocks before chopping the sills off,
try making the new sills out of slightly thicker sheet metal,it will make the car more rigid,easier to weld and harder for it to rust through again.
my first set of sills were just 3mm thick 50x100mm RHS,this car was very rigid :lol:
heres a couple pics of the rhs sill and the bottom pic is when i finnished the car


Attachments:
[ attachment ]
Copy of my 68 build.jpg [ 126.41 KiB | Viewed 5095 times ]

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68 510 - soon to be restored into a replica 68sss
69 510 - current build - L20b turbo
91 GT turbo legacy
GET THAT DATSUN DIFFERENCE!
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