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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:39 pm 
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Thanks for the link :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:14 pm 
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I use ones called "Rip'n'Strip" disks. Similar material, but bonded to a metal backing so they can go in an angle grinder. I get them from the local crash repair supplies shop.

If the ones in the link above are anything like the ones I use, be careful not to hit sharp edges with them (ie roof gutters, etc). They break up instantly and the angle grinder throws the chunks around with a fair bit of force :oops:

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1970 ex Group A Rally P510
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1972 180B SSS
1965 SP310 Fairlady
1966 SP311 Fairlady


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:52 pm 
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What can i put on bare metal to keep it from rusting for a long period of time (year+)

I have a shell thats been blasted and all the rust cut out and fixed but in some sections theres a bit of light surface rust i was going to clean off with those 3m disks and need something to spray over the bare metal

It doesn't matter if i have to take it off again when it comes time to paint

I've heard of people using different kinds of metal conditioners or would etch primer be ok to use?

If i can get it in a presure pack even better as its only small sections

Cheers :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:56 pm 
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I'd use etch primer.

Or just get the whole car zinc dipped?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Don't know about getting this zinc dipped down here in tassie

Would etch primer in a pressure pack be ok or is that generally crap? Or is there certain brands to use? and would it be a good idea to remove it before painting when i eventually get to that stage?
thanks sr!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:34 pm 
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Best thing you can do is paint the car in Etch prime. NOT from a pressure pack, but some of the best quality stuff you can buy. Make sure it has a zinc constituent in it. This helps rust prevention etc.

Make sure you prepare the car BEFORE the etch primer goes on. Sand all metal/painted areas with 800 grit, or a "3m Clean and strip disk (or similar)
Remove ALL surface rust with the strip disk.

You can leave the car in etch prime for ages, just as long as you keep it dry and sand the living daylights out of it so the primer you use before painting can stick to it. You don't have to sand it off, just rough it up.
around 3 to 4 litres of etch would do the car shell (with NOTHING on or in it). and maybe a bonnet, guards, boot, doors etc, just leave them in paint as long as you can until you are ready to paint them. I think for the whole car around 6L should do it. Just buy 1-2L and go from there if you are just doing sections. It's always better to have not enough paint than too much. As over time the paint can go off, and mixing it takes ages!

If you don't know what sort of paint was on it, I'd suggest removing it. Some acrylic paints don't like 2K primers, and vice versa. Try not to mix the paint types as they don't bond well together. My suggestion is to use 2 pack all the way. Make sure you are using a respirator though, as the solvents in 2 pack epoxies are quite nasty.

I suggest you also paint the insides of the chassis rails etc as much as you can. Don't use any wax/fish oil until you have put the final coats of primer on and in some cases the final coats of paint.

Don't put ANY body filler on non painted metal. Make sure you prime the painted section first, then apply the body filler. The same goes with the body tar/ body deadener. I prefer to use the "2 pack epoxy" style body deadener. It is harder, and stronger than the tar/bitumen based body deadeners. You can spray this stuff using a normal spray gun, but it does take a while to build up the required thickness. (a couple of coats does wonders)

Just buy a cheap shitty spray gun for all of the prep work. For the final coats, either get someone with a booth, or make sure it's a perfect day with no dust/wind/bugs and mates to touch the paint :D
Shitty guns are great for prep work. You still clean 'em after use, the finish of the primer doesn't matter as much as you sand the crap out of them anyway. Same goes with spray putty.

For the final coats of paint, use a good gun, and a booth.
You probably already knew all this, but it's good to explain just in case!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:38 pm 
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Etch primer is ok, but it is porous. 2k etch primers are better in this regaurd.


You want to keep it on there when you go to paint, as its 'job' is to provide a better chemical bond to the bare metal.

Epoxy primer would be a good option if it has to sit outside or somthing, but it is certainly not as easy to work with once it comes to doing all your body work.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:45 pm 
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Sean is right. 2K etch prime all the way.

Keep it on, but make sure after the car comes out of storage that you hit it with the sand paper, and paint it again lightly with the Etch prime before putting a coat of normal primer down.

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1972 Datsun 1600, S14 SR20DET Engineered (204rwkW @ 17psi.)
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#SR20Datsun @SR20Datsun


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Ok fellas i need some help here..

When my car got done about 1.5 years ago i payed a mobile rust repair guy with about 40 years experience and a guy who body builds for show cars around perth, to cut all the rust out of my car...

HE DID NOT put primer under the bog.. He put bog on bare metal then sealed it with Etch primer... Can anyone please tell me why someone of his experience (he hand built sill panels etc to perfection) would have made such a simple mistake...

I dont know if it means much but he was using green bog (anti rust... i'm not sure)

Over time i have touched up the slight surface rust with pressure pack cheap primer.. but something tells me im going to have to rub that back and re primer it with a good quality etch primer with a gun...


Also someone mentioned priming before you do your underbody sound deadener...

I didnt do that what i did was stripped it back...Sprayed fish oil in all the gaps, holes and creases i could find then applied the sound deadener...

NOW i dont want to go and have to strip all that sound deadener.. Can i spray a thick over coat of etch primer and get away with it...

:? :(

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:53 pm 
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Hey, as far as the primer under body filler / filler onto bare metal thing goes, you will generally find that 50% of people will swear by one way, and the other 50% will swear by the other way.

Most modern day polyester fillers say to put the stuff directly onto bare metal, but again the problem is that it is porous, and can lead to further corrosion if not sealed instantly.

As far as your sound deadening goes, you will be fine.
Spraying etch primer over the top would be a complete waste, as it is only used to provide a better bond for your next layer of primer/filler when the surface is bare metal.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:29 pm 
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I'm in the "bog on bare metal" camp myself.

I just make sure the bog is completely primed afterwards, and NEVER wet-sand the bog or leave it outside in case any moisture gets through to the metal. I also don't like to leave the bog exposed to the air for too long - I only do as much as I can finish in a day or two then prime it.

For bare metal, I hit it with a light coat of etch primer then follow it up with primer or primer/surfacer and spray putty. Once its good and straight, I coat it with epoxy primer to seal it as it will be left for a year or two before its painted.

I did the roof of the SSS with cheap primer and after it sat for a year or so, it started to develop surface rust under the primer. Had to strip it back and re-do it. Thus the epoxy final coat nowadays to (hopefully) stop this happening again.

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1970 ex Group A Rally P510
1971 P510
1972 180B SSS
1965 SP310 Fairlady
1966 SP311 Fairlady


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:37 pm 
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Location: Tasmania
Thanks for the replys, VERY helpful

I only mentioned the primer in a spray pack as i have some in the shed and for the small area i had to cover it was just easier than setting up the gun and making a mess, was going to get rid of it when it came time to paint but if its not going to protect the metal aswell as a good quality etch primer ill do things the proper way :wink:

to be honest i havn't made my mind up to go acrylic or 2 pack, i know i would be better off going 2 pack its just easier to paint acrylic :oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:35 am 
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2 Pack is piss easy to use.
You just have to use a respirator.
First coat goes on light, let it tack, then hit it with a thick coat. 2-3 of these later and you have awesome paint.

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viewtopic.php?t=6579
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:47 am 
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MR1600 wrote:
Ok fellas i need some help here..
.........Also someone mentioned priming before you do your underbody sound deadener...I didnt do that what i did was stripped it back...Sprayed fish oil in all the gaps, holes and creases i could find then applied the sound deadener...

NOW i dont want to go and have to strip all that sound deadener.. Can i spray a thick over coat of etch primer and get away with it...

:? :(
Basically fish oil has a limited life. I've been told around 5 years until you have to re-apply. Wurth rust inhibitor wax has a life of around 10 years.

The best thing to do with creases etc is to use a single pack epoxy sealer with a caulking gun, such as SikaFlex 252 (I think that's the number... It might be 253). You spray primer over everything, then get in there with the sikaflex, let it outgas after 2 weeks, then put final coats of primer over that or your body deadener. The car will float... Guaranteed

Don't worry about the fish oil and then body deadener over the top. It should seal the daylights out of it. What sort of body deadener did you use? The synthetic bitumen 2 pack or the bitumen stuff?

The normal bitumen stuff takes ages to outgas and cure. But if you have left the car for a year, then painting over the top of that is a piece of cake. Just hit it with some 2K primer and you'll be laughing.
It should be good for another 30 years.

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1972 Datsun 1600, S14 SR20DET Engineered (204rwkW @ 17psi.)
viewtopic.php?t=6579
#SR20Datsun @SR20Datsun


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:54 am 
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Location: midland, perth, W.A
Thanx for your reassurance guys... yeah i used the normal black body deadener, (bitumen stuff)

Sr20datsun>
Where can i get the 2k primer from??
Is there anything more specific i have to ask for??
I have a 2.5horse power compressor and air hose, what more specifically will i need to start spraying the primer (guns, pressures high - low etc)


Can anyone please tell me from baremetal to 2 pac what the process is step by step (not including body repairs)

From what i know

Baremetal
Etch primer - Which etch primer is best???
2k primer - see above
2 pak paint

Finish

CHeers

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