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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:44 pm 
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"As part of its ongoing actions to decisively address the performance of its global operations, General Motors today announced it would transition to a national sales company in Australia and New Zealand. The company also said it would discontinue vehicle and engine manufacturing and significantly reduce its engineering operations in Australia by the end of 2017."

http://media.gm.com/media/au/en/holden/news.html

Let the discussion begin..

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:48 pm 
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Put in this section IMO:
http://www.ozdat.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=15


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Done.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:48 pm 
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82, 000 cars were made by Holden this year, they made a loss on evey single one. Approximately a $430 millon loss.

High Aussie dollar, high production costs, small domestic market with high competition = inevitable closure.

I dont see how govt financial assistance could have stopped this in the long run.

The scariest things are the flow on effect, which will most likely see Toyota do the same and the influx of tens of thousands of workers to the job market looking for a new employment come 2017.

Disappointed that the govt didn't commit to at least one year of funding to help smooth things out. Although not surprised really, considering Abbott is complete f wit.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:59 pm 
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From what ive heard the money that the govt paid to holdens to keep them afloat in the past was well worth it in regards to the flow on of work and jobs. Where do you draw the line though?
What i cant figure out is why adelaide can successfully make submarines out at the port (Subcorp) but are not able to build cars?...


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:02 am 
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We need a new energy sector, thermal solar and wave power that way we can move out to country and beach areas away from the big cities which are getting too out of control. Then electric vehicles and more efficient agriculture systems using aquaponics.
Doing the same old same old and no new industrial revolution will cause a slow death to us all.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:44 am 
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The social impact will be massive, 3000 direct jobs to go, probably 10 times that amount in component and aftermarket industries. The amount of money for training, re-skilling, unemployment benefits, house and mortgage foreclosures putting stress on public housing, charities etc... the list goes on and on.

The cost of supporting these people will be higher than the cost of keeping the industry afloat.
d wrote:
We need a new energy sector, thermal solar and wave power that way we can move out to country and beach areas away from the big cities which are getting too out of control. Then electric vehicles and more efficient agriculture systems using aquaponics.
Doing the same old same old and no new industrial revolution will cause a slow death to us all.
Very true, but 20th Century thinking is going to dominate the landscape for decades more I fear.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:58 am 
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d wrote:
We need a new energy sector, thermal solar and wave power that way we can move out to country and beach areas away from the big cities which are getting too out of control. Then electric vehicles and more efficient agriculture systems using aquaponics.
Doing the same old same old and no new industrial revolution will cause a slow death to us all.

FFS! THIS!! ^^^^

Why the hell doesn't the government pass a legislation that ALL cars imported must be hybrid, and give the local manuf. a leg up on hybrid tech.
One way of Aus leading the pack.

Sad to hear NZ won't be importing any more of our Fords/Holdens etc. and instead importing cheap $hit from other countries like S.Korea etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:28 pm 
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FFS, the stealing off engines transmissions from holden. The union work practises are whats ruining the industry.
A mate works on the wharf. Told me today that they have one guy to open the doors, a driver, and another holding a red flag at the end of the row.
This is what happens loading CHEV marked Holdens for export.
Just a continuous rort on the tax payers.
Imagine that happening in a supermarket car park.
It all goes back to the Button plan when Nissan were forced to close because we had to many car manufactures in Oz.

I can imagine if Nissan stayed, what would of happened to GM. The replacement for the R31. Cefiro with RB30.
Performance Ceffi with RB30DET.
The VN would have been a bigger flop.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:15 am 
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Baz, I doubt the Unions, the workers and their practises had much to do with the closure of Holdens. Blame people who wont buy Australian built cars. I have 3 cars in my garage and each is australian built. A 1600, an XW GTHO and an XR8. You can stick all that euro crap with UV UN resistant interiors, jap cars that smell like ash trays or formaldehyde, US buckets of bolts and throw away korean junk (seen a bubble Excel lately) where the sun dont shine.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:01 am 
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I reckon it is a combination myself.

You have the unions who cause all manner of issues and put far too many demands on employers.
You have the car company execs that don't understand the market and dish out crap like Daewoo badged sh*t-boxes a la the Epica, the non-Opel Barina and so on. Ford were worse here: the Taurus, the Cougar, the Probe, the AU Falcon, the persistence with the 4 litre straight six etc....
You have the government (successive ones) that are focused on 24 media cycles and on re-election and not with long term thinking - no country has benefitted from closing local manufacturing like this. Things have to change but you don't just kill it dead.

In the long run we'll be stuffed with this, how are we going to support the fallout of 50,000 people losing their jobs? The social cost of losing the industry is worse than the cost of keeping it going.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:59 am 
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Bubble Excel are everywhere still on our roads, this is a Korean car that is like the Jap Corolla.
They are built for economy, reliable, well designed for space in such a small car and will outlast all same year Holdens and Fords for what it is as peeps do not recondition them or rebuild them yet they still survive on our roads.
I wouldnt buy one but many have and love them and still show support by buying more Hyundais rather than our crap local content that doesnt deserve to be on the roads. Mainly chinese made Holdens can lick my sanitary bowl stains

This is what Australian car industries should have done. Recognise what the times and what people should use and deliver like the Koreans have done world wide. We will never see a Korean classic day like we just had at Como Park but these companies have learnt like the Japanese companies to copy and do it better. Hyundais are looking better than Toyotas and just beat them overall for yearly reliability (albeit the Camry is still the most reliable car in the world) when combining all the models Hyundai has, its on top.

Even Japan is falling behind by staying with the old ways and they are losing hard like they did in the shipping industry to the Koreans as well. I still prefer Japanese cars but its hard to ignore these cars made by Kimchi loving coke bottle glasses wearing potato heads with only ambition to be the richest and the best in the world.

The arrogant attitudes of Aussies in high positions in the car industry and the rest of the bean counters is a joke, it extends throughout Australian industry in all sectors, rip offs, con artists and barbaric service that even shows why most companies outsource to Indians cause basically we are a land of mainly drunken, violent and ignorant morons.

Our once fat country is now in charge by scum in all areas where our pathetic Government system just rapes and pillages everything they can with the help of Big corps every 3 years and no responsibility or care for consequences of OZ's future.

Its a combinations of things but first of all we need to get rid of the Government and the laws protecting psychopathic corporations along with politicians squeezing the taxpayers for more and more each year. The media is controlled by Scum Zionist with their pockets in everything from big Pharma, mining, energy, weapons, media, war and society.

Welcome to the 21st century in Oz. Has anyone noticed LPG prices and even RACV head complaining its 33 cents over the correct price? can we do something about it as we own so much LPG that even BP says there is no supply issues and that the US story about their winters is pure BS. Can we do something about it in our democratic country? simply no we are slaves in our own rich and beautiful country.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:24 am 
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Why are we selling our LPG, ore and other resources to foreign business and countries when we pay TOP DOLLAR for our OWN resources?
Something wrong there..

Baz, you are right. Button STUFFED the industry and the following prime ministers/government were all in on it because they didn't abolish it.
Love to know what they are up to?

Unions for foreign owned companies = OK. Unions for local companies is just a thorn in their side. Most manufacturing sectors who don't have unions are actually doing quite well.
I worked in a manufacturing sector with Unions, and they basically stopped progress, which minimised savings, which in the end, allowed the company to offshore manufacturing to a low cost region and put 70 of us out of jobs!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Some very interesting points in this thread. I'm not going to get into the politics of it because I'm probably out of my depth.

But what hasn't really been touched on is... do you not feel that Holden's products were out of touch with the market? I've got some mates who've worked at Holden and the distinct impression that I have is that Holden Australia had no control over what happened (GM internationally called all of the shots) so I'm not blaming them directly. I'm going to sound like every other bogan here, but surely Australia is still Australian/blokey enough to want a locally made VH-sized rear wheel drive platform? I'm sure they would want it to have horrible options like diesels and multi-speed autos - but there would still be demand for that, right?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:02 am 
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Holden has been subsidised since day 1. Nothing unusual, the european car market has been subsidised by their governments too, and most other car markets have always been subsidised by their government.

I'm suprised that they aren't continuing funding, regardless of the losses. The creation of jobs (keeps their unemployment rate down), as mentioned above the aftermarket sector and the OEM parts.

The Government is all for funding mining... Only because of the export profit.

I can understand someone buying a new Nissan, BMW, Toyota etc. But that's really the only car brands that have anywhere near amount of build quality & ease of maintenance and support of a Holden or Ford.

The worst car I've ever driven has been a Hyundai ix35, oddly proportioned, stiff and useless ride (it's a 4WD with 80mm suspension travel?!), ugly inside and out, poor engine/gearbox tuning, heater didn't work from new, didn't steer straight from new... I could go on forever... Yet I still will never understand the 3 grand saving over a Falcon or Commodore. Locally owned, local parts, reliable and made for the country it was built in.

Where the Government has f*cked up, is not with the funding but the lack of utilisation. Fatty O'Barrel stopped buying Falcons and Commodores for fleet cars in the public service sector, now the only few left are in the law enforcement with detective and HWP fleet cars. Workcover, local councils, state health and heaps of other sectors now drive Camrys, Outlanders, and Hyundai iLoad vans...

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